I adopt senior rescues and I don't have them vaccinated anymore, figuring they have had vaccinations their entire life.  After reading what yearly vaccinations can do I feel partially responsible for the death of two of my dogs, both died of cancer and both had been vaccinated yearly.

All my dog loving life I have thought that I was doing the best for them by protecting them against disease.  Now, to feel I might have contributed to their deaths, makes me feel awful.  Unless I get a puppy, which I doubt as I'm hooked on seniors, I won't have vaccinations for my kids anymore.  Is it also true that rabies serum lasts years longer in the system than they let on?  I have heard that it can provide immunity up to seven years.  True??

I have been going to my vet for 16 years until a badly injured dog was brought in and left for 45 minutes in terrible pain.  She had been hit by a motorcycle and had numerous injuries.  It wasn't until the dogs caretaker complained loudly that, finally,  pain meds were given.  I was very discouraged by this treatment.  Also, the vets charges had tripled in the last two years.  Changing vets......I had a 17 year old that was suffering from kidney failure and I could smell her breath to know what it was.  A blood panel was done.  As my little Daisy was being put down my "new" vet said "It's her kidneys" and then charged me $30 for a consultation!  Discouraged even more.  The reason I am including this little tirade is I feel the vaccination "business" is a money making opportunity for some doctors...some doctors are callus, some money hungry.  Others are angels   I am again looking for a vet.....

Hi J.A.

I had this very conversation with susie  the other day on 5/24 under holistic health care "are we over vaccinating our pets". You can see the post there, if you have trouble finding it and wish to see it I will be happy to send it to you. Do not feel badly there are many things we do differently today than in years past and we were usually trying to do the best we knew how.

Jay

I am sorry to hear of your fur babies passing away from cancer. Please do not blame yourself! Cancer is often caused by things we cannot control--genetics is one of those things. What our parents were exposed to when pregnant with us. The environment(the parts of which we can't change). As we age, our chances of developing cancer grow--there isn't much we can do about that. The best we CAN do is live a healthy lifestyle, eat well, and try to avoid chemical contaminants by going "green" or organic when possible. (Hard to do in today's economy) As for over-vaccination, the only required vaccine is rabies, and that varies by state. In Florida it's required every three years. My vet has gone to every three years for the core vaccines. They still push Lepto and Bordetella yearly, but, if your dog doesn't go to the dog park or get boarded often, you don't need Bordetella. Lepto is prevalent in some states, but is also relativley rare. Eli had a reaction to Lepto, so no more for him or his sister. If you are not happy with your vet, keep looking! My vet probably thinks I'm a little kooky, but she is willing to work with me. Since home cooking for my babies, and and giving the proper supplements, I haven't had to see her very often. Perhaps that's what she is most upset about? There is lots of info on the web about vaccination of pets: aaha.org critteradvocacy.org cyber-pet.com to name a few. You can also type in Holistic Vet in your search engine and find one close to you. Good luck!

Thanks so much for the kind words.  Your posting was very interesting.  I, too, believe that it is a money making situation and the ongoing vaccinations have now become accepted as "the way to do things".  I can understand doing this with puppies and getting a good strong immune reaction going but to do it for life seems foolish and dangerous. 

Yes, still looking for a really good vet.  I'm asking some of my pet-lover friends for recommenations.  My Lorenzo needs his nails clipped, one of my least favorite things to do s thought I would  see a new  vet for that,  that way I can be there and watch the interaction, check out the staff and get a feel for place and people before anything major needs to be done.

I, too, don't get my cats vaccinated.  They get their first shots when I first trap them but that's all.  One cat has auto-immune problems and I told the vet I was reluctant to tax his immune system any further.  She agreed.  They have all had their rabies shots but that's all.  They are totally inside cats and I just don't feel the need for adding chemicals to their systems.  So far, all are healthy (knock on wood!) and until I learn a compelling reason for change, I'll continue this way.

 I, too, have been in your position, feeling horribly guilty for 'over-vaccinating' my pets, which may have led to health problems, including cancer.  I had a wonderful golden retriever, who we adopted in 2000 when she was 6-years-old.  Back then, I was of the same mind-set as you, believing that my pets absolutely needed all of the annual vaccines or they would die from horrible diseases.  You can imagine my shock when Lola's former owner told me that he had never, ever taken her to see a vet in the six years that he had owned her.  So, of course, one of the first things that I did after we adopted her was get her in to see the vet!  She did have a health problem, one that I was totally ignorant of, as we always had our dogs spayed and neutered.  She was an intact female and she had pyometra.  However, on that first visit to the vet, of course, the first thing that they wanted to do was load her up with every imaginable vaccine available.  And, because I did not know anything about pyometra, I thought she had an uti and told this to the vet.  She prescribed a series of antibiotics for two weeks.  It was upon our return visit that the pyometra was discovered and she had to have immediate emergency surgery.  While I was extremely grateful to the vet for saving her life from the uterine infection (which was really bad, from what I was told), through later reading on vaccinations, I found that they are never supposed to be administered to an animal showing any signs of illness.  

To make a long story much shorter, after two years of dealing with health problems like horrible itching, limping, and benign tumors, and continuing to have the vet administer all the vaccinations you could possibly imagine, including the infamous Proheart 6 heartworm injection, she was diagnosed early  in 2002 with lymphoma.  After almost a year of chemo treatments (but no more vaccinations!!!), we decided to stop and I began taking her to a holistic vet.  Now, I take all of my dogs to the holistic vet and no longer have them vaccinated.  And none of them have ever come down with any of the diseases that the vaccinations guard against.

My sweet golden girl is gone now.  I had my vet let her pass on this past February.  She lived to be 14 years old, which, from what I've been told is pretty old even for a golden that had a healthier life.  We miss her a lot, but, despite the health problems, she had a good, happy dog life.  She was a great dog.  My only regret is that I didn't know then the things that I know now about natural rearing and fresh, whole food diets.  

There is a very good article on vaccination protocols in the current issue of The Whole Dog Journal.  Dr. Ron Schultz, PhD, ACVIM, from the University of Wisconsin-Madison School of Veterinary Medicine.  He has done a lot of work studying the Duration of Immunity of canine vaccines.  The pharmaceutical companies, and probably many of the vets that count on all those annual vaccines for guaranteed income, don't like the things he has to say, but it's important information for all of us who really care about the health of our animals.  Also, he is supposed to be very approachable, willing to give talks to various groups involved with dogs if he is asked.

 The main reason that I decided to not take my dogs back to the previous veterinary office where I went was because of their policies on vaccinating.  The last time that I visited them, I made the appointment for my two dogs, Annie and Maggie, to just get a wellness check-up and a heartworm check.  When I got there, the receptionist began a rant about how they were both due for every shot under the sun.  I was holding out, because I knew about the three-year core vaccine protocol and the uselessness of other vaccines, such as giardia and leptospirosis.  You would have thought that I stated I was planning on taking my dogs to the chocolate shop and feeding them each a pound of the dark stuff!  Between the receptionist, the office manager, the techs and the vet herself, none of them would listen to me about what was going on at U. of Wis. and kept repeating what their policies were.  I was literally cornered!  We finally compromised on just the 5-way and rabies, which I now know should not be given at the same time.  It ended up costing me close to $500 for the visit, and my younger dog, Annie, could barely move the next day because of pain at the vaccination site.  I never went back.  

 

 

Hello!

How are Annie and Maggie doing? I somehow missed your post before, and find it very interesting. I don't want to continue with vaccine "boosters", as I do feel they cause illness in the animal. I have 3 cats that have never been vaccinated, and they are incredibly healthy. They don't have any of the problems my dogs do.

I also wonder how you feel about heartworm prevention. Proheart 6 was before my time as a dog owner, but, my good judgement tells me that I would not have given my dogs a shot that lasted that long. Just doesn't seem right.

 

Hi Susie!

Annie is doing really well, but Maggie is having some problems.  We have been looking into a problem that she has been dealing with since the beginning of May.  She has been retaining a lot of fluid in her abdomen and chest, and has been coughing quite a bit.  After extensive testing, it was determined that she either has heart disease or cancer.  Her heart looks (ultrasound echocardiogram) and sounds fine, so, after ruling that out, the vets believe it is cancer.  Although, no growths have been seen or felt anywhere, and there have been no cancer cells found in any of the fluid samples taken from her chest or abdomen, or in her blood or urine.  So, we are treating her as if she has cancer.  She is taking a holistic immune support called Moducare, along with Lasix to relieve some of the fluid build-up and Prednisone (5mg. a day).  She is also taking a sort of experimental drug, which we just started this past Friday - it's called LDN, for Low Dose Naltrexone.  This is a drug that is used to treat people with addictions (heroin, alcohol) and has been found to be very helpful to people with MS, HIV/AIDs and cancer.  The problem is that this drug was only manufactured in high doses (50 mg.) so if you want it in a lower dose, you have to find a compounding pharmacy willing to put it together for you.  My vet got some from a pharmacy in NY and I still have to divide the contents of the capsules in half for Maggie.  Tonight is her fourth dose.  I hope it does her some good. 

I don't know if her problems are related to being over-vaccinated in the past or not.  I don't think there is any way to determine that.  It could be anything.  We believe that she may have gotten into something toxic back in the winter of 2005, because she was hospitalized over a weekend with kidney failure.  Last year, we went through several months of urinary tract infections, which culminated in her taken to the emergency clinic in the middle of the night because she could not urinate.  She ended up having surgery shortly after that to remove a bladder stone and one bad kidney.  That was almost exactly a year ago.  She was fine until this Spring, when all this fluid build-up started happening.  Crikey!  It's always something!!

As for heartworm prevention, I have mixed feelings about that.  Considering that you live in Florida, I would probably use year-round prevention, just because it is so prevalent down there.  Where I am, it happens, but it seems to happen to animals that are feed lower quality foods.  I have spoken to several people who work with different rescue groups this summer, and they have told me that they are now having dogs that they have taken in treated for heartworm disease.  I always get freaked out about this, because neither of my dogs are on preventative.  But I have had them both checked recently and both are negative.  I really do not like the thought of feeding my dogs an insecticide, but I sure do not want either of them to get heartworm.  Living where we do, we have a little easier than other places because we get a hard frost that kills off the mosquitoes and other pests.  But, we also get pretty humid in the summer and we do get a lot of mosquitoes, so I do worry about it.  There are some that believe that feeding the dogs garlic works to keep the bugs away.  I do put garlic powder in their food, and they don't get fleas or ticks, and so far, no heartworm either. 

There is something that I have always wondered about heartworm, and I mean to ask my vet about this (she is very tolerant of my quirky questions) - Why don't people get it?  All of my life, I have had to deal with itchy mosquito bites in the summer.  We get malaria, yellow fever, dengue fever and West Nile Virus from mosquitoes, why not heartworm?  It's not like it's some sort of zoonotic virus.  It's a parasite.  So why don't humans fall prey to them?  If anybody has any ideas on the subject, please let me know because I am really curious about this.

Thanks!

Rachel

Rachael it is very insignificant but we are all wishing you the best and I am sure I am right about that. In answer to your question, In a few isolated instances heart worm has been reported in people as small disturbances in the lungs, having little or no effect on the person's health. Such cases are considered biological oddities and is not presently recognized as a human health problem

Hi Rachel.

Sorry to hear of Maggie's problems. Have they ruled out a renal cause in light of her history? Anything is possible.

As far as HW, I do feel badly about using insecticides. It's chemo for dogs. But, I don't see much of an alternative in my area. Some people advocate herbs for HW prevention,but, they can be just as toxic as commercial meds. Just because something is "natural" doesn't mean it's any safer.

Why don't people get HW? I don't know. Perhaps a slight difference in the immune system. Why don't dogs get Dengue Fever? Same reason.

Best of luck to you and Maggie.

Thank you, all of you, for your concern and good wishes for Maggie.  She is hanging in there, but it really doesn't look like anything that we are giving her is causing any significant changes.  Her appetite is still good, although she is getting thinner.  She still enjoys going for long walks with me and Annie. 

When we did all the testing - blood, urine, liquid samples taken from her abdomen and chest, radiographs and ultrasound - her one good kidney looked and seemed to be functioning fine.  It also did not look like there were any new stones forming in her bladder, although the walls of her bladder were slightly thickened.  The vet doing the ultrasound said that this was due to the ongoing urinary tract infections she had been experiencing before she had surgery last year.  Constant irritation and inflamation can cause this.  They also took biopsies of her good kidney and her bladder when the surgery was done and everything came back normal. 

My vet and I have been bumping heads about this and are tossing around the theory that there is something going on with her involving the spaces between cells in the tissue.  There is supposed to be bonding between cells in the organs to prevent leakage of whatever they may be responsible for holding.  Certain cells, such as in the capillaries, have openings to allow fluids to move back and forth, as in the transfer of nutrients and waste materials.  We are considering the possibility that there is something going wrong with this tight bond that is supposed to exist between cells, allowing leakage where it's not supposed to be.  The problem is we don't know where or why or, if this is the problem, how to stop it. 

It's very frustrating not knowing what you are dealing with.....

Anyway, Susie, I hope that Gustav doesn't cause you any problems!  He looks pretty mean!!  Take care.

And thanks again for the good wishes for Maggie!  It's much appreciated.

Rachel

Hi Rachel,

Thank you for your concern. It is very windy and rainy here, but we are fine. Gustav has other places to go, so pray for the folks in New Orleans. They need them.

It sounds as if Maggie is suffering "capillary leak syndrome". The capillaries allow fluid to leak into the surrounding tissues, causing organ failure. There are some trains of thought that this is a precurser to Monoclonal Gammopathy of Uncertain Significance(MGUS for short). This condition can lead to multiple myeloma, a cancer of the blood system. Maggie should have a SPEP(SeroProtien ElectroPheresis) with IFE(Immuno Fixation Electropheresis). This will tell you more about what's going on with Maggie. Multiple Myeloma is a cancer of the blood system, but, the blood system is connected to the immune system. They both arise from the bone marrow. Disease of the blood will cause dysfunction of the immune system, and vice versa. It makes some sense that Maggie may be on a drug for HIV/AIDS. That said, those type drugs are quite toxic, and the patient(Maggie) must be monitored closely.

Another illness that is sometimes(albeit rarely) connected with capillary leak syndrome is Amyloidosis. It occurs when the body does not break down amyloid protiens properly, and they get deposited in the organs of the body, say the liver, the lining of the stomach, etc. Symptoms include nausea, vomiting, fatigue, weight loss, arthritc disorders, pain, edema of the extremites, organ failure. It is often considered an autoimmune disease. Treatment centers around symptom control. In people, bone marrow transplant is considered. Diagnosis is made apon biopsy. This is a VERY RARE condition, and only a specialist in immuno disorders is likely to discover it.

I hope this is not too much information. There is quite alot to be had on the internet. I was only hoping to help give you some other avenues to consider. If you wish to persue, type MGUS, Amyloidosis, and capillary leak syndrome into your search engine. There is a wealth of info to be had. How it applies to dogs, I don't know, but, it's a start.

Best of luck, and keep us updated.

Prayers are with you.

 

Excellent Susie! Information like that does not grow on trees and does not come by easily. I hope you now gave enough to jog the ideas of the vet. Go Maggie!

Thanks.  I have experience with both disorders. I would go so far as to say Rachel should let an Oncologist/Hematologist look at the biopsy slides, get the addtional bloodwork, and go from there.

Wow.  That's all I can say...wow!

That is a huge amount of very helpful information, Susie!  Wow!

I am definitely going to run all this stuff by my vet and see what she thinks.  She'll probably have the same reaction that I did, at first. 

We have available to us a really great veterinary clinic that includes a group of oncologists, internists and surgeons that specialize in soft tissue and in osteopathic problems.  So, we should be able to get Maggie the help that she needs. 

Thank you so much! 

Rachel